PHILADELPHIA REFLECTIONS
The musings of a Philadelphia Physician who has served the community for six decades

251 Topics

FRONT STUFF: Savings for a Rainy Day; SECTION ONE: HSA and its Competitor, in Brief
Editorial material for book construction.

TRANSITIONS
For a long time, Lifecycle HSAs would be mostly in some transition phase.

New Health Savings Accounts
New topic 2015-07-07 03:12:18 description

Multi-Year, the Future of HSA
We've spent a lot of time on the 1980 version of Health Savings Accounts. It's already rolling along in action, with only a couple of suggested additions to make it better. But there are several other variations which would need some legislation, but could possibly take the basic idea into new directions.

HEALTH SAVINGS ACCOUNTS: Many Surprises
One of the originators of Health Savings Accounts describes their advantages over existing health insurance. Improvements are suggested for the regular HSA. More dramatic cost improvement emerges from a lifetime HSA version, substituting whole-life approaches for pay-as-you-go. Most of this requires legislation, but could reduce health costs dramatically.

Click for more Topics

Philadelphia Reflections is a history of the area around Philadelphia, PA ... William Penn's Quaker Colonies
plus medicine, economics and politics ... 2392 articles in all

  • Try the search box to the left if you don't see what you're looking for.

Lifetime Healthcare At a Dollar a Day

Let's say I had a dream: Healthcare for life for a dollar a day, with money left over. Here's how it goes, in very condensed form. You'll have to read the book to get the slow and more careful version.

Like everybody else, I set up a Health Savings Account. Then, depositing a dollar a day into the accounts, I could pay my medical bills with a debit card. What will a dollar a day buy? It will buy between 10 and 47 dollars a day in health care, depending on details, but it can't do it until I deposit some money and gather some income. So, let's start over. I deposit the maximum for a year, which is $3350, just to get things started. Although he hasn't endorsed any of this, my reading of Roger Ibbotson's compendium of asset prices for the past century implies if I buy index funds and forget I have them, the total stock market has a way of rising 12% a year for a century, while at the same time inflation remains remarkably close to 3%. So I spend it all on VTI, and at the end of an average year, I will have a balance of $3567.75, maybe a little more, or less. Maybe I do that for two or three years, to achieve some other sort of minimum balance. There have been a few medical costs along the way, but I pay them in cash, to build up my tax-exempt account. Only after this preliminary, am I comfortable with a dollar a day experiment. Because it's a nuisance, I deposit $365, once a year.

Let's say I am thirty years old. Let's say someone told me that money at 7% will double in ten years; that's pretty close to 6.5% for back-of-the envelope checking. The money should double in ten years, increase by 400% in twenty years, 800% in thirty years, and 6,400% by the age of 90. Disregarding the money to get the account started, I should have deposited $13,140 in the account by the time I am 66, and the balance is $. because I didn't get sick and at age 66 the rules say I can't deposit any more. I then should have the option to buy out of Medicare, but Congress hasn't given that option to me. The account can continue to invest at 6.5% however, and if I don't spend any of it, it should have a balance in the account of $ at the age of 93. About $20,000 goes in my estate to a grandchild or grandchild surrogate, and he has thirty more years to invest it than I did. But mostly that big estate of mine has gone for Estate taxes and whatever else my heirs want to spend it on. All of this is nice, but money isn't worth much if you don't spend it.

So thinking this over, I take the IRA option at the age of 66, and effectively have a taxable income of $ a year until I die at age 93, and leave as estate of $. That's a little better, but it still doesn't take full advantage of the benefits available, because if I spend it on legitimate health matters, I would pay no income tax. Like everybody else, I have some medical costs to spend it on, so how do I take full advantage of what is available to me?

In the first place, I am allowed to deposit a maximum of $3360 per year. So if I have the money to do that, my retirement fund becomes ten times as large. A total investment of $ gives me a retirement fund of $ a year. It's a good investment, so it has to be considered. Almost anybody could use more money for retirement.

Now, to return to the medical issue. The Health Savings Account has a second tax deduction for medical expenses. I have Medicare, but I'm paying for half of it, as payroll deductions and as premiums. I really have some incentive to get out of it to stop that. Furthermore, the government is going in debt to the Chinese for the other half of my Medicare costs, so the government also has an incentive to encourage me to buy out of it. Suddenly, doing a thing everybody said was inconceivable, really must be looked into. If there is more than enough money left over, I could also supplement my Social Security with the surplus, take care of my grandchild, help the government with its deficit, and regain confidence in my ability to pick my own doctor, hospital, and pharmacy. Instead of getting renewals every month, I can buy a year's worth of pills and save more money. The same would even be more true with opting out of Obamacare, but the political polarization is now so extreme, it just isn't the logical place to start new initiatives.

Lots of things about this dream could be improved by liberalizing the laws and regulations, but at the moment, $3560 a year is the maximum deposit, and we set $365 a year as a minimum of a dollar a day. If you start at birth, those two numbers would result in balances at age 66 of a minimum $ and a maximum $. But that's if you start at birth. If you start at age 65, you get almost nothing. That's known as a transition, and it's often the hardest thing for politicians to manage. But anybody can have a dream. Essentially, it works toward Lifetime Health Savings Accounts, which will probably take a decade or more to smooth themselves out.

--------------------------------------- Next, here's how the health insurance goes. Experts agree average Americans spend about $350,000 per lifetime on their health care, half of it after they get enrolled in Medicare. The HSA pays for small-cost outpatient work, while its attached catastrophic (high-deductible) insurance shares the occasional risks of big expenses, mostly hospitals. After time to build up, the Savings Account is able to pay the deductible. Children's health costs are a problem, because the number of children in a family is variable, and runs in cycles over time. We have a proposed solution through the grandparents, but Congress must first permit it. (Total health expenses up to age 21 are about 8% of life's total, and the average woman has 2.1 children, which is about one grandchild per grandparent. Grandparent transfers from his own Health Savings Account. Health Savings Accounts are simultaneously formed for grandchildren to receive the transfer, and possibly later repay with a few cents a day from their 21st to 66th birthday. More regularly, the child at 21 has two HSA funds, one for his own outpatient care, the other an escrow fund to pre-pay an optional Medicare buy-out. Either way, enough surplus is generated to pre-fund one grandchild#2's future expenses. And so the loop is closed.

Confusing? This lifetime cycle starts at the 21st birthday, the start of earning power, but the lowest medical cost year of an average lifetime. The whole cycle is mostly funded during the age period 21-66, except for childhood carepaying for that person's current care, perhaps paying back his loan from grandpa, and pre-paying his own Medicare buy-out into an escrow. So, actual expense is $2 daily during the earning period, augmented by 6.5% compound interest throughout the cycle (generated by passive investing). This artificiality places retirement at the end of the investment cycle, followed only by a gift to the grandchildren generation, equal to one grandchild's average health cost up to age 21 (8% of total costs). Adjustments must be made for Medicare premiums and Medicare payroll withholdings, since the buyout is optional. Furthermore, lifetime catastrophic backup insurance does not presently exist, so its cost is hard to estimate, but it should be considerably cheaper as a result of reducing overlaps and administrative costs. There's another few cents or so left in the fund, in case of miscalculations, or to pay for the poor.

So the cycle starts all over. That's really all there is to the dream. And a dollar a day was picked for illustration, whereas if you were really doing it, the calculation would need to be more precise.

The math comes down to this question: whether a dollar a day, at 6.5%, will really generate $350,000 in 93 years, having been depleted from time to time by spending on illness, and thus unable to generate investment income. $365 a year for 93 years would produce an astronomical final result and is not displayed. By my calculator, $365 per year for 66 years, grows to $352,850 at age 66. If contributions stop at age 66, but compounding continues to 93, the age 93 balance becomes $1.92 million, all of which was generated from a total of $20,090 deposited in $365 annual amounts for 66 years. The promise was to do it in a lifetime, which we project to be age 93 at the rate things are going. There is room for considerable surplus, or for errors in estimation, or for expensive medical discoveries.

That's a real bargain and the money is really there, but it is so maldistributed you can't spend it. No health care until age 66, but worlds of healthcare from 66 to 93 when you don't even need it because you have Medicare, summarizes the initial mindset. All additional effort should first be devoted to internal redistribution.

The Solution. Regardless of details, medical costs less compound interest, will be net cheaper than medical costs alone. Just fiddle with the numbers and it will come out paying for it all. If there is any credibility to the projection of lifetime health costs of $350,000 per lifetime, the credibility of paying for it with $20,000 at 6.5% is quite good, and $30,000 is even easier. Medicare reports it spends an average of $11,600 per person per year for 17 years or an average of $197,000 per lifetime. The HSA would generate* five *times that amount, so the problem becomes one of recycling the $1.7 million surplus, backward to the first 66 years. One way open is to discontinue the Medicare payroll deduction, which generates something over $20,000 revenue per working person per lifetime. And the other way available is to eliminate the Social Security withholdings, which are four times larger. Adding these two features to the compounding would come pretty close, close enough to be supportable by waiting a generation for any surplus or deficit to catch up.

It would certainly be adequate to privatize Medicare coverage, and that should be considered. The old folks are wary, but they aren't crazy. All this is simplified. The basic idea is that each person's HSA could optionally cover three generations, or two, or only one if Congress would approve. The remarkable power of compound interest, combined with passive investing, can supply adequate funds to do it, but getting your hands on the money is up to Congress.

Some people are more skeptical than others, but it should not take most people long to calculate that indeed the math is as reliable as any prediction of the future can ever be. Some will protest you can't spend money twice, so all right, it might cost two dollars a day for permanent overlaps (see the next section). If someone has other objections, let's spend five dollars a day and keep him quiet, too. This approach is clearly cheaper than continuing as we are presently doing. Some might object the tax deduction is really paying for it; but taxes are what are supposedly paying for it now, and just look at the result.

Any other questions? Read the book.


Saving For a Rainy Day:

Health Savings Accounts

.

Introduction

Introduction:

This book, an expansion on the Health Savings Account idea, is written in 2015 by one of its 1980 originators. It has been revised and rewritten several times, only to have some sudden development or Court decision force it into yet another revision. After the United States Supreme Court decision of King v. Burwell , I decided to make one hurried revision and then stop revising it. It had grown to five hundred pages, well past the length the public would tolerate without a total rewrite, so it was severely cut, with the plan to take the cut pieces and bring them out separately as Handbook of Health Savings Accounts. I hope to produce the latter book soon, but it cannot be promised. This one, with still a few ragged edges, is written for the public and the Congress in order to become part of the coming debate. I hope some of its defects from the cutting process can be overlooked.

Because the concept has considerably enhanced into a multi-year form, called Lifetime Health Savings Accounts (L-HSA), the original proposal is renamed Classical Health Savings Accounts (C-HSA). Most of the Republican candidates for President have included classical HSA in their campaign platforms, but necessarily cannot endorse the expanded versions without reading them. However, this is not a political book and fifteen millions of satisfied subscribers have already enrolled in the classical version. The Lifetime version requires serious legislation, suggested here in detail, but only as a goal. Following two unexpected Supreme Court decisions, a third, revised, version called New Health Savings Accounts (N-HSA) is added, covering the 68% of healthcare costs not covered by the Affordable Care Act, but not particularly in conflict with it, either. If the two political parties could agree to compromise, pieces of these proposals might be useful in the debates.

So we begin the book by outlining the proposed solution to problems which are described in later sections. The idea is to avoid the appearance of grievance, by first presenting the proposal in general terms, before describing many of the reasons for it. The second section of the book, however, is a series of comments on the hidden economics of healthcare. It reflects the author's views after sixty years as a practicing physician in many roles. This section probably reflects most physicians viewpoint on a number of features of healthcare which the public is seldom exposed to, but most of the details are unfamiliar even to physicians. Its importance lies in leading to yet another main proposal, which is to make a deal with the employer community to repair the problems created in the past century of employer-based health insurance. In a sense, employers and unions think they own employer-based insurance as an idea. But in a realistic sense, nobody owns it, and it is fair game for anybody's comment.

The third section contains major working details of Health Savings Accounts once a fuller theory has been set forth. In particular, investment and constitutional issues are expanded. It could expand on the details and requirements of adjusting employer-based insurance, except that is scarcely necessary, and in any event is beyond my control. I originally saw the employer-based proposal as incidental to Health Savings Accounts, but the employer community could well regard it as the only thing worth talking about.

At the end, a sixth section of this book extracts almost fifty specific legislative proposals which require attention before final Lifetime proposals could be completely operational. Lifetime viewpoints are the ultimate goals; we have too many one-viewpoint silos. The author is reluctantly brought to the conclusion that both employer-based health insurance and Medicare are solutions now outgrowing their former usefulness. Obamacare is regarded as not really a reform, but a nationalization of the finance system, with intended reforms remaining undeclared, just so long as Government decides them. Nobody owns this problem, or its solution. It is a public debate, and a continuing one.

And after all, this is a book, not a political speech. Marketing and administrative costs of HSA will be considerable; all details are expensive, take time to explain. Revenue sources vary, as do sickness costs. Only the HSA concept remains durable throughout, and its basic premise is, you should be in control of your own finances. Therefore, please understand where you might be going. Unfortunately, that requires re-examination of a system which served us fairly well for a century, but now causes much of the trouble itself.

Now to jump around, the Supreme Court decision of King v. Burwell seems to have assured the Affordable Care Act will be part of our system for some time. However at the same time, health insurance companies have suddenly raised their rates so much it becomes quite doubtful the nation can afford to continue the ACA approach. Or at least, without abandoning its major role in some other field, like international affairs. Therefore, I abandoned any attempt to predict what will happen, and developed an interim plan for making choices.

It was to apply the Health Savings Account approach to everything else except age group 21-66 which apparently will be dominated by Obamacare until some elections settle some issues. That would cover at least as much healthcare cost as the ACA does; but without bipartisanship it would be a stretch to make it work. Adding the two together would vastly increase the savings for mathematical reasons I will explain, and perhaps be the basis for compromise. So that's New Health Savings Accounts (N-HSA), plus modified Obamacare, leading to Lifetime (L-HSA) by the back door. Combining two plans that almost work, into one plan that works much better, would be quite an achievement. Meanwhile, we certainly would have an interesting debate. If we could bring employer-based insurance into the mixture, it might become very exciting, indeed.

George Ross Fisher, MD

Philadelphia

July 14, 2015


Front Stuff, Saving for a Rainy Day : Health Savings Accounts;SECTION ONE: HSA and its Competitor, in brief

...Also by the same author:

The Hospital That Ate Chicago, Saunders Press, 1980

Health Savings Accounts: A Handbook, Ross & Perry, Inc. 2015 (Forthcoming)

---------------------------------

Ross & Perry Book Publishers

3 South Haddon Avenue

Haddonfield, New Jersey 08033

856-427-6135

----------------------------------

Copyright: 1-2540412791

ISBN #: 978-1-931839-44-0

-----------------------------------

Acknowledgements

For advice and support about the thrust of this book, I owe spiritual debts to John McClaughry of Vermont, the late F. Michael Smith, Jr. of Louisiana, and the late Bill Niskanen of Minnesota and Washington, DC. It's heartening to remember strong support coming from wide corners of America, and from strata of society ranging from a country doctor, to the former Chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisors. All three of these men worked their way up to being either a candidate for Governor of his state, the President of his State Medical Society, or the Chairman of a famous Washington think-tank. All three brushed aside the problems they created for themselves by constantly thinking outside of the box. My fellow Philadelphian John Bogle, whom I have only fleetingly met twice, deserves a lot of credit for demonstrating in his books how to invent a complicated concept, and then simplify it for outsiders. I've adopted his investing strategy.

And for personal support and tolerance from my family editorial board, consisting of my two sons and two daughters. My son George took time out from climbing the tallest mountains in the world, to develop a computer algorithm that instantly created the answers to a multitude of math problems hidden in certain assertions I blithely make, but now have confidence in. Likewise, my CPA daughter Miriam, told me some things which may be commonplace among corporate Chief Financial Officers, but astonish the rest of us. And her siblings Stuart and Margaret, who understood my tendency to wise-crack, but having long practice with its consequences, talked me out of most of it.


Summaries for the Book Jacket and Elsewhere.

Short Summary for Book Jacket:

This book presents a physician's viewpoint on Healthcare Reform. Much of it is the hidden economics of healthcare, which the public and even physicians seldom hear.

Three main proposals to reduce Healthcare costs are offered, two of them variants of Health Savings Accounts. A couple of others are briefly alluded to. The book presents about fifty individual proposals, usually necessary ones to make the main ones feasible. Thirty years experience with 12 million subscribers to the classical version of Health Savings Accounts generate suggestions by the dozen, but at least the classical HSA is already in place without them. Lifecycle or Lifetime Health Savings Account (L-HSA) reduces net health costs far more but requires extensive legislation. So full-blown L-HSA must be the third of a three-step program, with transfers among family accounts as the initial legislative step in the right direction. The political situation, particularly after two Supreme Court decisions, requires a step backward to New (N-HSA), which makes the second step include everything except the age group 21-66, which is 42% of health costs. Whenever the 42% are ready to be included, we can look to including them in a lifetime plan, which creates astonishingly enhanced revenue potential.

But remember, the classical form only needs a little tweaking. All you have to do is buy it and urge Congress to tweak its tax exemption to be like every other plan. Removing small mandated benefits (which reduce the market power of high deductibles) would also help. That might get us to re-examining employer-based insurance sooner than might be guessed.


I'm overwhelmed. I'm thinking of a one-line poem by William Blake: "Enough or too much" " stragglers who live from 85 to 91." Sorry to be a burden, but soon to be 91 I can still go a couple of rounds without huffing and puffing. You remind me of Dr. Melvin Konner.... professor.... anthropologist..... physician.
Posted by: Martin   |   Sep 27, 2014 5:16 AM
I want to thank you for this wonderful resource. I find it fascinating. May I offer one correction? In the section "Rittenhouse Square Area" there is reference to the Van Rensselaer home at 18th and Walnut Streets and its having a brief fling as a club. I believe in 1942 to about 1974/5 the Penn Athletic Club was located in the mansion. The Penn AC was a good club, a good neighbor and a very good steward of the building - especially the interior. It's my understanding that very unfortunately later occupants gutted much of the very well-preserved original, or close to original, interiors. I suppose by today's standards the Van Rensselaer-Penn Athletic Club relationship could be described as a fairly long marriage. The City of Philadelphia played a large role in my life and that of my family, and your splendid website brings back many happy memories. For me and many others, however, there is also deep sadness concerning the decline of so much of the once great city and the loss of most of its once innumerable commercial institutions. Please keep-up your fine work. Your's is a first-class work.
Posted by: John D. Mealmaker   |   Aug 14, 2014 2:24 AM
Dr. Fisher, The name Philadelphia University was adopted in 1999, as you write, but the institution dates to 1884 and has been on School House Lane since the 1940s. It acquired the former properties of the Lankenau School and Ravenhill Academy, but it did not "merge" with either of them. I hope this helps when you update your site.
Posted by: David Breiner   |   Jun 11, 2014 10:05 PM
Hello Dr. Fisher, I was looking for an e-mail address and this is what I could find. I must tell you my Mother who you treated for years passed away last May. She was so ill with so many problems. I am sure you remember Peggy Marchesani. We often spoke of you and how much we missed you as our Dr. You also treated my daughter Michele who will be 40. I am living in the Doylestown area and have been seeing the Dr's there.. I just had my thyroid removed do to cancer. I have my fingers crossed they get the medicine right. I am not happy with my Endochronologist she refuses to give me Amour. I spoke with my Family Dr who said he will take care of it. I also discovered I have Hemachromatosisand two genetic components. I have a good Hematologist who is monitoring me closely. I must say you would find all of this challenging. Take care and I just wanted to convey this to you . You were way ahead of your time. Thank you, Joyce Gross
Posted by: Joyce Gross   |   Apr 4, 2014 2:06 AM
I come upon these articles from time to time and I always love them. Is the author still alive and available to talk with high school students? Larry Lawrence F. Filippone History Dept. The Lawrenceville School
Posted by: Lawrence Filippone   |   Mar 18, 2014 6:33 PM
Thank you for your articles, with a utilitarian interest, honestly, in your writing on the Wagner Free Institute of Science [partly at "...blog/1588.htm" - with being happy to post that url but the software here not allowing for the full address:)!] I am researching the Institute, partly for an upcoming (and non-paid) presentation and wanted to ask if I might use your article's reproduction for the Thomas Sully portrait of William Wagner, with full credit. Thanks very much for any assistance you can offer here. Josh Silver Philadelphia
Posted by: Josh Silver   |   Jun 2, 2013 1:39 PM
Thank you for your articles, with a utilitarian interest, honestly, in your writing on the Wagner Free Institute of Science [partly at "...blog/1588.htm" - with being happy to post that url but the software here not allowing for the full address:)!] I am researching the Institute, partly for an upcoming (and non-paid) presentation and wanted to ask if I might use your article's reproduction for the Thomas Sully portrait of William Wagner, with full credit. Thanks very much for any assistance you can offer here. Josh Silver Philadelphia
Posted by: Josh Silver   |   Jun 2, 2013 1:39 PM
George, Mary Laney passed away last November. I was one of her pall bearers. She had a bad last year. However, I am glad that you remembered her and her great work. I will post your report at St Christopher's and pass this along to her husband Earl. Best wishes Peter Hunt
Posted by: Peter Hunt   |   Mar 28, 2013 7:12 PM
Hello, my name is Martin. I came across [http://www.philadelphia-reflections.com/blog/1705.htm] and noticed a ton of great resources. I recently had the honor of becoming a part of a new non promotional project on AlcoholicCirrhosis.com. We decided to put together a brief guide about cirrhosis, and the dangers of drinking. We have received a lot of positive feedback and I wanted to suggest that we get listed on the above mentioned page under The National Institutes of Health. Let me know what you think and if you have any further requirements or suggestions.
Posted by: Martin   |   Jan 1, 2013 8:51 AM
I FIND THIS VERY INTERESTING, INDEED. I AM HOWEVER, SEARCHING FOR THE ANCESTOR WE HAVE BEEN TOLD WAS JOSEPH M. WILSON OF JORDAN TOWNSHIP IN WHITESIDE CO. IL USA. MY HUSBAND WAS ORPHANED AND WITH LITTLE CONTACT WITH HIS FATHERS SIDE OF THE FAMILY THE 9TH OF 10 SURVIVING CHILDREN SINCE ALL ARE DECEASED BUT, ONE). I HAVE HOPED TO FIND HIS CONNECTION AS TO THE STORIES RELATED BY SEVERAL OF HIS DECEASED RELATIVES THAT WE ARE CONNECTED TO THE WILSON MILL FAMILY HISTORY. OF JOSEPH AND FRANCES. MY HUSBAND WAS ALSO, FAMILY TO: GRANDFATHER RANSOM (ISABELLA)WILSON & HIS BROTHER WILLIAM; OF ELKHORN GROVE CARROLL CO. IL USA AND HIS SON JOSEPH WILSON(NANCY). I?WE( MY SONS AND NEPHEWS NEICES AND GRANDDAUGHTERS IN COLLEGE... WERE HOPING THAT NOW THAT I AM ON THE COMPUTER AND WITH YOUR HELP THRU THE GENELOGICAL SOCIETY TO YOUR ADDRESS WE MAY FIND THE FAMILY WE SEEK. MY LATE HUSBAND AND I DROVE PAST THE SITE OF THE FIELD WHERE JOSEPH AND FAANCES ARE BURIED , THE CEDARS ARE GONE AND IT IS NOW FIELD. I HAVE BEEN HOPING TO FIND THE LINK FOR OVER 30 FAMILY TO PAY TRIBUTE TO THOSE WHO HAVE GONE BEFORE AND PERSEVERED TO BRING US THE LIFE WHICH WE ENJOY AND SERVE, TODAY. I RECEIVED ONLY THIS WEEK BY A FLUKE AN EMAIL WITH PHOTOS FROM A 3RD COUSIN THAT FOUND MY EMAIL ON A COUSINS EMAIL ADDRESS AFTER INQUIRING AND INTRODUCING HIMSLEF: AND HE TOOK THE TIME TO SEND MANY PHOTOS AND HISTORY OF GRANDPARENTS AND FAMILY AS WE HAVE HAD NONE. WE STILL DON'T HAVE A PHOTO OF HIS MOTHER AND FATHER. WHAT I HAVE OF THE TREE, I AM ANXIOUS TO SHARE WITH FAMILY THAT IS SEEKING HISTORY, AS I STILL AM HOPEFUL TO FIND IT IN TIME FOR THE DEADLINE AUG. 30 TYPED AND DELIVERED TO MY MARTIN HOUSE MUSEUM WHERE I AM A MEMBER. MY HUSBAND WAS A MASTER MASON WHILE IN LODGE WITH THE COUPLE THAT DONATED THE HOUSE TO BE A MUSEUM. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND THE GRAT WORK YOU HAVE ALL DONE ON THIS HISTORY. WE WERE LIFE MEMBERS OF THE LUTHERAN CHURCH BUT , THERE IS NOT ONE IN OUR TOWN, SO I FOUND THE REFORMED CHURCH,OF WHICH, I AM VERY HAPPY TO BE A PART. THANK YOU .
Posted by: SUSAN WILSON   |   Aug 12, 2012 12:49 AM

Please Let Us Know What You Think


(HTML tags provide better formatting)

Because of robot spam we ask you to confirm your comment: we will send you an email containing a link to click. We apologize for this inconvenience but this ensures the quality of the comments. (Your email will not be displayed.)
Thank you.